SAAS Operators Podcast E15: The Brutal Truth About Shopify Right Now with Sean Frank
In this episode of the SAAS Operators Podcast, Sean Frank, The CEO of Ridge and one of the hosts of the Operators podcast joins us for a frank conversation state of ecommerce on Shopify, Amazon and how SAAS is adapting. From pricing, to surviving market conditions, we talk about the tradeoffs between usage, seat-based and flat-rate pricing. Sean shares why Ridge is scaling through new product categories, not just wallets, and what it really means to have leverage as a $100M+ brand. We talk about ecommerce’s post-COVID contraction, the fading flood of VC money, and why fewer founders are entering the space. And we close with a debate on whether vibe coders will eat the Shopify App Store, how to survive rising CAC, and why niche monopolies might be the most underrated startup strategy.
This week, we had a special guest on the pod, Sean Frank from the Operators Podcast and Ridge Wallet. He joined our usual chaos to talk pricing models, ecom consolidation, startup leverage, and the shrinking TAM nobody wants to admit.
“Only $75M? You Guys Better Raise More.”
Sean kicked it off roasting Rishabh for raising "only" $75M. His point? That kind of money barely buys attention anymore. If you’re building a category-defining SaaS product, $75M is just your ticket to the table.
That led us to a funny but true insight: one of the biggest drivers of awareness for Fermat hasn’t been ads or outreach. It’s been people trying to figure out what the hell they do. And Sean himself has been a major source of that buzz (despite never using the product).
What This Podcast Is Actually About
Sean asked for a quick level-set: what is this podcast and who are these guys?
Rishabh broke it down. It’s three founders and me, Jack, all building SaaS in ecommerce, but with totally different funding models.
Rishabh is venture-backed and aggressive.
Jeremiah runs a PE-backed portfolio.
Zach’s bootstrapped.
The goal is to unpack what it actually means to operate a SaaS company depending on your capitalization path.
Pricing Philosophy: Flat Rate vs Usage vs “Just Keep Doubling It”
From there, we got deep into pricing strategy. Sean laid out the landscape: usage-based pricing forces hard decisions. Flat-rate pricing is easier to adopt. Seat-based pricing (like Figma or Foreplay) is intuitive and easy to grow into.
Then Rishabh said it out loud: his approach is to pick a number and keep doubling it until someone says no. The current entry point for Fermat is $500/month, scaling with Meta usage. But Sean, spending $5M/month on ads, flagged that usage-based pricing makes him pause more than anything. It introduces volatility and uncertainty.
Jeremiah runs the opposite model: flat-rate, value-limited, low price floor. You want full access? Pay a little more. He even has $100M brands on $19/month plans because they’re not using the advanced features. He’s playing a long game of customer volume and data leverage.
Will AI Devs Kill Shopify Apps?
Sean asked if anyone was worried about AI coders flooding the app ecosystem with cheap clones. Zach argued the opposite. Great products with smart pricing and high frequency of use won’t get disrupted easily, especially not if the alternatives are buggy or unsupported.
Jeremiah added that expertise still matters. AI can write code, but it doesn’t replace experienced operators who understand the nuances of ecommerce workflows. You can’t outsource all your product thinking.
The Shrinking Ecom Pie
We spent a big chunk of the episode talking about ecommerce’s contraction.
Not collapse.
Contraction.
Less new brands.
Fewer new merchants.
Less dumb VC money floating around.
Sean called it “2002 of the tech bubble” — the peak is behind us, and now it’s about rebuilding.
GMV is down. New store creation is down. BuiltWith data shows fewer active Shopify merchants. Sean thinks this isn’t because of some sudden crash. It’s just that we’re not refilling the pipeline. The failures are normal. The new entrants aren’t.
Everyone agreed. Ecommerce has matured. You can’t launch a half-baked product, slap some ads on Meta, and scale to $10M anymore. The opportunity is still there, but now it takes expertise, capital efficiency, and real leverage.
Leverage Belongs to the Haves
Rishabh pointed out what most people don’t want to admit. The gap between the “haves” and “have nots” in ecommerce is widening fast.
Sean confirmed it. Ridge has real leverage. Better ad support. Better vendor contracts. Better shipping rates. Why? Because they have scale, and because Sean has influence. A $30M brand might feel successful, but if it’s only throwing off $600K in profit, a lawsuit or failed launch can wipe it out. The edge goes to those with margin, volume, and optionality.
So What Now?
Zach is expanding into gaming, apps, politics. Anything that isn’t ecommerce. He’s building Foreplay into a data company and thinking beyond just ad inspiration. His quote: “Ecommerce founders are great first customers... but the worst long-term customers.”
Jeremiah is sticking with it. Doubling down on low pricing and product expansion. His thesis is that by layering products and surfacing insights, he can create value worth paying for. He’s chasing flat-rate utility plus long-term trust.
Rishabh is playing a different game. He’s not chasing Ridge today. He’s trying to build the platform that captures the next Ridge when it emerges. Just like Klaviyo and Shopify didn’t start at the top. They were ready when the wave came. That’s the strategy.
Monopolies in Small Markets
Sean wrapped with a great take. The most underrated move is becoming a monopoly in a tiny market. Own something nobody else cares about... until they do. That’s how Shopify and Klaviyo won. That’s how Tesla started. You don’t need a big idea. You need dominance in something small, then room to expand.
