Jack (00:00)
Hello! Welcome to another 4Play Fireside. I'm here with Matt Attala. Am I saying that right? We'll be doing a landing page audit. I can see people are coming into the room. Type into the chat where you're from and ⁓ where you work. Also send in your URLs so that we can sort of do like a live roast. This isn't going to be so like ⁓ planned. You know, there's no deck to go through. We're actually going be looking at your landing pages.
Matt Attalah (00:06)
Yeah, perfect.
Jack (00:29)
and tearing them to pieces. So come on guys post your your landing pages in the chat.
Matt Attalah (00:37)
Yeah, no, definitely. And if you have any questions with regards to BFCM strategy generally for like on page experience, super happy to answer any of those. So I'm the founder of a CRO agency called Step Labs. I think over the next 30 days, we'll be building 150 pages for 50 plus brands for ⁓ Black Friday, Monday. So ⁓ any and all strategies, we've tried them, we've kind of tested them. So happy to go through any questions anyone has as well.
Jack (01:07)
All right, we've got Rafael from Mexico. Hey Rafael, how you doing buddy? And we've got Dre from Medellin, Colombia. And he's got a little.
Matt Attalah (01:16)
I was in Medellin
last month in Los Laureles.
Jack (01:25)
Lorela's. Nice, nice. When I went to ⁓ El Pablado, I heard that was like the place to be. There some nice cafes, good coffee.
Matt Attalah (01:30)
Pop that in.
sweet.
Jack (01:36)
I live in
Poblado. Nice, nice. What was the cafe my fiance fell in love with? ⁓ man. ⁓ Pogamino, that's it. do you know Pogamino? There you go, you got it.
Matt Attalah (01:48)
You already pay.
Nice. By the way, we already got a link, you know, the link that you sent me across a few days ago. Do you want to just share screen and I can talk through that once kicks off. So good sleep code, health, slash products.
Jack (01:58)
Yeah.
For sure, let's do it.
You know one of the things that I think is interesting about these sorts of audits? I've seen and been to a few of these and people will look at the website just in desktop. They'll be like, let's audit this website and just look in desktop. So we're actually gonna try and get close to the mobile view by just like squeezing my window.
Matt Attalah (02:26)
Just shrink, yeah, just shrink it and
I'm happy to go through both, no problems.
Jack (02:32)
Alright, we've got it up here.
Matt Attalah (02:34)
Okay, ⁓
this wasn't the LP. So the LP I just put in the chat if you can just click that one.
Jack (02:39)
shit.
Yeah, you got it, Troy. Pugamino. All right, so the first one on the list here is Good Sleep Co. And it looks like this is their USA landing page.
What are you thinking, Matt?
Matt Attalah (02:59)
Okay, ⁓ so this is different to the one I saw before, I mean, yeah, like immediately, obviously just coming off the bat. The one thing that I always, always add into these landing pages, whether it's top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel, in your hero section, you've got to have an announcement bar. Your announcement, the reason why this is important is because if you go through Microsoft Clarity, which by the way, if you haven't got that installed, you should get that installed. It's kind of like my opinion, one of the only good products Microsoft put out recently. ⁓
One of the reasons is because when you actually start looking through something called a scroll map, you'll see that on average across the brands we work with, for example, before they start working with us, by the time you get to the third section on the home page or the PDP, 60 % of users are gone. So when we look at the hero section, we're actually optimizing for 100 % of the traffic. So let's say you have 100,000 users that actually land on a page. Of those 100,000,
you know, it might only be 50K that make it to that third section. So we've really got to think from the lens of like, how can I capture enough attention to justify expanding on my value proposition as we go further down the sections? So with the announcement bar, for example, I would always have like an offer that we're running and then a call to action. If it's a top of funnel landing page, I'd want to bring them further down. So that's kind of missing here. The second thing obviously is that, know, is this a landing page or the homepage, Jack?
Jack (04:22)
This is the landing page, yeah, USA landing page.
Matt Attalah (04:24)
Okay,
cool. So I'm going to assume this is ⁓ like a very top of funnel landing page. ⁓ You know, it's obviously quite a technical product. But if you scroll up back to the hero section, you know, even just coming from an elementary standpoint, right? Like we're missing social proof. We're getting clear on like this reads to me copy wise, like an about page. For me, this doesn't read as though like we've got a clear H1.
like subheadline that expands on the value proposition of the H1 ⁓ directing towards ⁓ product conversion. ⁓ So if the homepage is gonna function more top of funnel, then that kind of orients some of the sections that we're seeing. ⁓ So if it is intended to be more educational top of funnel, I would still probably...
want more to come out of this hero section. I don't have a clear graphic on the product. I don't feel like I have a great understanding of what ⁓ the product does. It depends, obviously, to some degree on the work that the ad does. So if the ad has done a really good job at validating those things, then ⁓ maybe that's done some of the work. But really, I think there's a lot missing here, to be frank.
Jack (05:40)
Yeah,
dude, you know what stood out to me as well? It seems like a product that might be for auto demographics, you know, good sleep code. I don't know too many young people that are concerned and the readability is so low, right? With these colors, this text here is both the white and the pink text is...
Matt Attalah (05:56)
contrast ratio.
Jack (05:59)
really hard to read. ⁓ Yeah, I can't see the product up at the top here. It's just this weird ⁓ gradient. think this is a miss in so many ways. And I would agree that not having social proof, not having the product images, having a small button, learn more, there's just, yeah, there's a lot that this page could do better to take somebody who is net new to this brand.
and make them ready to make a purchase just from that first part of the page, that first section, ⁓ without having to scroll down the page, right?
Matt Attalah (06:32)
Right. And I think also specifically with lens with like view towards early black Friday, like really, think people need to, you know, you need to effectively evaluate all of your touch points.
on site, ⁓ and look at everything that can be customized. So for me, when we're looking at CRO strategy for brands for early black Friday and then black Friday, it's not just the case of optimizing the landing page. Like, yes, we can talk about the landing page, but also how many people are customizing their popup with their offer for black Friday? Like if you've got an alia popup, recommend customizing that and adjusting it. how many people are actually adjusting the copy of the verbiage on their after cell funnel? ⁓ so once someone has.
already checked out having a custom Black Friday offer. Hey, only 24 hours at this to your basket. ⁓ this is our Black Friday after sale for VIP customers. ⁓ these are the kinds of variables that aren't considered that in my opinion, will drive incremental performance improvements relative to last year. As we all know, Black Friday is going to be probably more competitive this year than last year. Last year was more competitive than the year before from a, ⁓ achieving profitability and, ⁓ like good solid unit economics throughout
performance
marketing funnel. ⁓ So I do think you have to look at this from a more holistic standpoint than ⁓ just the landing page. I mean, another variable or factor that I think is worth considering is like.
Just simply being like, in my opinion, just super aggressive in terms of the quantity of places on the website that your Black Friday offers is mentioned. So for me, that's announcement bar, that's landing page, top funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel. That's your PDP hero sections at minimum. If you don't customize anything else, that should still be customized. ⁓ Probably your announcement bar, urgency bar in the side cart. ⁓ I would also look at customizing some of your checkout extensibility blocks with some copy just to push Black Friday. And one of the reasons is because we've run tests before at StepLabs.
that have shown us that literally just message like mentioning Black Friday more will increase conversion rate on the same page relative to mentioning it less. ⁓ from a psychological and a heuristic standpoint, people have like sort of like in the Pavlovian way become much closer associated with Black Friday equals spend money. So the more that you tap into that and the more you're just clear like, this is going to be our biggest sale of the year. And you're mentioning that throughout the site, not just on the LP. ⁓
version throughout this period in my opinion. It's really important that we repeat that message and really drive it home so that we're getting maximum juice out of all of these offers that you're putting out.
Jack (09:09)
I like that. Yeah, basically mentioned Black Friday, right? We were talking about Black Friday landing pages and yeah, I don't see any mention of Black Friday or any author on this page separate from the product, right? So get your promotional author in and label it with that seasonality that ⁓ is, yeah, priming people to buy. It definitely looks like a very technical product that needs some explanation, but yeah, there also needs to be an explanation of what promotional author it is that you're running, right?
Matt Attalah (09:39)
100 % fully agree. Does anyone else have any pages they want us to run through? Otherwise I can go through some examples of like general best practices that we see throughout this period that can lift conversions as well. We've got one in the chat from Dre.
Jack (09:52)
Yeah, let's see, guys.
Yeah, feel free to drop them in the chat. I'm to go over a few things that stand out to me on this page, and then we'll switch. So left-align buttons on mobile, center-align or right-align, so you're not causing thumb stretch for right-handed people, especially with these tiny buttons. Some people might literally not be able to reach it on large smartphones. ⁓
everything is learned more. I'm not sure if the user can actually purchase the product here. ⁓ Right. So, yeah, that might be a big missing piece here. It depends what the intention is, but, you know, if it was lead capture, you probably want to be able to capture that somewhere on the page too. I also didn't get a pop-up, ⁓ any sign-up form. So, yeah, lots of room for improvement on this page.
Matt Attalah (10:25)
No, there's no buy box.
100 % um, Dela, Delahal. Let's check this one out.
Jack (10:52)
to it.
Matt Attalah (10:56)
And then we can go through mobile on this one as well.
Jack (11:02)
this looks better. Look at this.
Matt Attalah (11:03)
Yeah, sweet.
This is a better, better one. was nearly falling into a deep depression on the last one. ⁓ So pop-up wise, ⁓ think the pop-up is solid, two-step pop-up. One of the things that I would, genuinely, I don't want to just shell referrals here. promise I'm not an affiliate. Alia pop-ups in almost all circumstances for a brand that's making more than
30 to 50 K per month, we'll just generate a higher ROI. Like it's a immediate lift on, on, from a CVR standpoint across 30 plus brands that we've implemented that for. So that's an immediate recommendation that I would say for pop-ups. It just allows you also to improve your attention marketing efforts because, you know, basically like if you haven't seen them before, they're kind of like multi-stage pop-ups that allow you to storytell. So like, Hey, here's a 5 % discount if you give us your phone number. But if you.
⁓ let us know what your pain point is. like, let's say I'm dealing with like a red light therapy device. If I say what, let us know what your pain point is, whether that's your knee or ankle, your back, ⁓ for an extra 10 % off, then we can put based on that response, we can then personalize their retention marketing funnel, ⁓ and their introductory flow to the brand based on that. So that's something that we see consistently perform better than other ones. I think they could charge like 200, $300 a month. ⁓ but the ROI is immediate. If.
you're at enough of a scale. ⁓ that's just the first thing on the popup. If we just go back quickly, ⁓ to the whole website. ⁓ so announcement bar missing again. ⁓ that one's just an easy one. Just add it in, add a CTA, fall into renewal, exfoliate dullness, reveal radiance. for me, ⁓ the imagery here is, is good. Like I think I get an understanding of what the products, what the product is about. I don't think exfoliating tools is an effective CTA.
but that's something that can be adjusted. There's also no social proof. So even just having like loved by 5,000 plus customers, ⁓ or, you know, any of your, three, like having like a banner just below as well, ⁓ below the like CTA, like in the bottom of the above the fold, like the bottom of the above the fold section. If you just like call out like for four value propositions, just be like value proposition one on the left, ⁓ free shipping, ⁓ value proposition two.
Jack (12:58)
No.
Matt Attalah (13:26)
4.9 star rated value proposition three, ⁓ highest quality product in the category, ⁓ as reviewed by good housekeeping, whatever. And value proposition for, ⁓ 10 % off for members. Those you can obviously do better than that, but just sell, you know, if you're running a performance, if you're running a DTC brand that's scaling, don't lean so far in from a, this is good for breast practices, but don't don't lean so far into the storytelling and the brand that you forget to actually sell.
But ultimately, like, remember to be direct response as well, especially in this period where for our early black Friday and black Friday, like you're competing for clicks, you're actively competing against other brands. So the more that you make your sell, your sellable offer competitive, the higher the likelihood that you know, you, you'll get people out of that doom scroll. ⁓ so yeah, this is a good example of best practices. so we've got an offer in the announcement bar. I think it'd be good if you had a call to action so that someone can click that and directly go to the CTA, to that PDP.
⁓ imagery is great here. I like the subtle call out of like in the, the imagery of the limited edition, the social proof banner or bar just above, above the H one. It's fantastic. I think the CTA is super clear. but I absolutely love if we scroll down here, the things that they're doing. So this is an alien pop-up. ⁓ just what's gone now, but that was an alien pop-up. ⁓ yeah. So this is what I was talking about, right? So like as they run this pop-up.
If someone says gut health, they're then going to get different messaging throughout their introductory flow and funnel, which is more personalized to that pain point, which naturally increases the conversion rate. So that's something I would recommend certainly. ⁓
Jack (15:05)
Right,
I'd love to jump in here and say, you know, none of this runs in contrast to anything that you're.
email marketing experts will say, you know, they are talking about segmentation, they are talking about personalization. But a lot of brands, unfortunately, are just sending the same generic email series, whether it's a welcome series or it's your campaigns to each of your customers. And there might be different reasons why your customers are shopping with you. For Groons, in this example, in this pop-up, you can see that there's four different main reasons, right? It's gut health, brain health, energy, and comprehensive nutrition, right? And being able to speak to each of those different desires in a more
Matt Attalah (15:33)
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Jack (15:40)
personalized way is going to improve the way that they speak to those customers with their different desires, right? So yeah, if this seems like a lot of work, then maybe it's time to talk to your email people and say, hey, why aren't we doing this, right?
Matt Attalah (15:54)
Yeah, for sure. Good call out there. But if we just go back to the prior landing page, there were some sections that were really good. Not the Groons one, the Delahar. Yeah, so if we just scroll down a bit. Yeah, you can do it on mobile as well. Scroll down, scroll down.
So this I like. This is the section that's the highest quality section on the page, in my opinion. So what I really like is, one, obviously from an aesthetic standpoint, I like the way that we've implemented the glass morphism. I think it looks quite premium. But I really like implementing UGC with the ability to purchase the product baked into the UGC flow. So we've got a section here, which if you just click out of the actual video.
Jack (16:18)
Yeah, this is nice.
Matt Attalah (16:44)
We've got a section here, and it gives us a series, a lot of social proof. This is extremely good UGC, high quality, recommended people. And it allows me to purchase at the point in which I validated the trust and the legitimacy of the business. And possibly also through the UGC that this is a product that is going to help me with a specific pain point that I have. So this should be way higher up the page, in my opinion. This is the strongest section.
I wouldn't associate this section so much with follow at Delahar. I would push this more for conversion purposes, not to funnel them towards the social ⁓ media accounts. this is a very good example of things done very well. Even if we just go down to the section below here where we have the logo banner, this should be in the hero section. So this is the kind of stuff like social profiles that can just be a running banner marquee on the hero section. If you can just scroll to the bottom of this page as well.
Always add an FAQ section at the bottom. When we go through Microsoft Clarity for brands, or if you prefer, you can use Heatmap or you can use Hotjar, the most clicked element on a landing page is almost always the FAQs, which is interesting because it's usually the section just above the footer. So it actually receives a disproportionate amount of clicks relative to the amount of people that see it.
So one of the reasons is, know, people just want their questions answered. And a lot of the times that we build pages now, we spend a huge amount of time just on those FAQs, just making sure they're relevant. Go through your customer support tickets, align your 50 most common customer support queries with the FAQs and make it tab-able. So obviously you don't want a long list of 50 FAQs. So just add like 10 and then just have five tabs. Shipping questions, product questions. ⁓
Brand questions. And you can create those tabbable categories. And you just tab in, and it changes the 10 questions. But the more questions you can answer, in our experience, higher conversion rate on the page. So that's something well worth looking at as well. Should we hop into the next one? Because there's a few others that came into the chat.
Jack (18:51)
For sure, just before we roll off of this one, something I'd like to point out is that ⁓ there's no way to add product to the cart. Maybe ⁓ quick add to cart functionality on this product grid would be nice. ⁓ If there are any variants, variant selector. ⁓ There's no specific product that's being advertised throughout this page. So maybe a focal hero product, like a product section. And then maybe a sticky add to cart button as well.
Matt Attalah (18:59)
Great call out.
Jack (19:18)
If you find that your new customers come in on a specific product and you're likely to have a better conversion rate and new customer conversion rate on that product, might be worth featuring here. And this screams to me, this little follow Dellahart, as this social section came with the theme and this was just the default title adapted to Dellahart. But I can agree more with you that the thing that you want your customers to do after viewing this is not to follow you. You could probably get rid of this entirely.
so that people can actually focus on the content. And then, yeah, I also agree that, you know, move this social profile, move this authority logo marquee up, right, so that you can get that communicated as quickly as possible as opposed to just, you know, some of this beautiful photography, because you are kind of being inundated with photography right at the start of this page.
Matt Attalah (20:10)
million percent. if you, while we're going through these screenshots and audits, if you want to just put another, like a specific question into the chart, just put it in and I'll get to it as well.
Jack (20:12)
Awesome. So let's move on.
Awesome, right. This looks good. This looks a little bit better standing out.
Matt Attalah (20:26)
This is good.
Cool, photography is exceptional. I think that on desktop, the sub-headline is probably running, is tracking a little bit too far. ⁓ On mobile, it looks a bit better. ⁓ Discover now, I think is probably not the most effective. I'd change this to unlock early Black Friday savings if you're running early Black Friday. ⁓
Unlock savings now. I'd go more direct response with the CTA in truth. ⁓ social proof we're missing the one thing I'm going to call out immediately. Cause it's a big, ⁓ I always get us wrong. Is it bug bear bug bite? Do you know the, ⁓
when something annoys you. Anyways, in the announcement bar, we've got links to Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. These are four leaks in the funnel. And you've got the leaks in the funnel at the point where 100 % of users are going to see that. So anyone clicks that, they're into a doom scrolling session. Like your website is not the place to increase the social following.
Jack (21:14)
Mm.
Matt Attalah (21:30)
The social following is the place to increase the sales of the website. That's how I view it, right? So let's not funnel people away from the website. The purpose of the website is for people to convert. Let's not take them away. So anyone that clicks that on Microsoft Clarity or on a heat map or whatever, for me, that's someone's, they're gone. Once they're into a new tab and they're looking at your socials, they'll get distracted. They're probably not coming back.
at least not in that session. We're missing social proof here. Again, how many reviews have you got? What's your trust pilot rating? What publications have you been featured in? What did a specific?
400k influencer say about the product or a leader in plant protein nutrition What have they said about your product? Can we do a call out so that we can just validate this off the bat? Because all of these are trust heuristics when someone comes onto a page the first thing they want to see is hey does it make sense for me to trust this brand and all of these kind of cues of a this is a big influencer these are the cues of persuasion is heuristics that people use to make sure that the rest of the
scroll is going to make sense for them. and this happens kind of subconsciously, but yeah, it's important to add social proof. We all know that I like this bottom bar. ⁓ I probably go through the content in a bit more depth. mean, just saying efficient, delicious, five star, five star, five star doesn't seem as validated as like, maybe we can valid, like prove that a bit more. Like maybe we can, if I click the five stars, does it take me further down the page to the social reviews module? ⁓ not sure. ⁓ if we come back, scroll down a little bit more.
Add to cart great that you have this in here. Jack will be happy. then I would say it's also worth my opinion. think brands like this, ⁓ should make it as easy as possible for people to subscribe and save. So, ⁓ even if it's just like a one click to transition from one time purchase to, ⁓ to subscribe and save. That's going to help your LTV a lot. ⁓ anything from you, Jack on the first few sections.
Jack (23:25)
No, I can agree more. Yeah. I mean, not even in the cart, right? You add this product to your cart, there's no way to switch to a subscription. This is a consumable, replenishable product. I mean, it's just, yeah, such a massive opportunity that's not being capped on right here.
Matt Attalah (23:41)
But I like the fact you got 41 reviews and you got a little bit of social proof underneath. That is good. And also I think though, truthfully, directing people through labels is also really important. So we do a lot of split tests on like the actual product labels. And this is something that people do so well on Amazon and so badly on Shopify, like sell through your images. Like go, if you go to the product images in that product card section.
Like instead of just say 15 % one free bottle, why don't we just have a call out like, I guess we do here. We have this badge that says best seller, but I mean, that looks a little bit Canva to be fair. Um, but like just make it easy for people to understand what is the best product for me. like best, even like best for moms, um, best for 20 year olds, best for OAP. So I don't know whatever you want to do to segment people, just help them through the journey, you know, and labels are a good way of doing that as well.
Keep it scroll down a bit more. I like this though, shot by solution. This is really good stuff here. Make it easier for people to make decisions. Also available at retail, retail, retail. I'm not sure I'd add this into your homepage on the DTC website. Probably not, in truth. ⁓ I also wouldn't have this massive image. Don't think it adds much. It takes up quite a lot of real estate as do these two images. ⁓
I think I could illustrate this point a little bit better. like the wrong way, the right way. ⁓ I believe right is, okay. I was nearly deeply concerned that you'd spelled right wrong. ⁓ but it is, that's not something that's occurred. which is good because I guess that will make people chuckle like we just did. ⁓ but for me, it's like, yes, no, like get an illustrator to just do a graphic, ⁓ visualize this point. So it's not just text. it's like the same, you do the ad creative like words.
Jack (25:06)
Hahaha.
Matt Attalah (25:25)
Words are good, but illustrations I think are easier. Make the point, hit home a bit more.
Cool. Quiz funnel was good, but yeah, you're missing FAQs again. ⁓
Jack (25:41)
really don't like this. I don't like redirecting people to a reviews page where they can't purchase to see your reviews. Yeah, this is...
Matt Attalah (25:48)
Yeah, that's jarring.
should this you should just have this as a on your collection slash all. You should just have ⁓ this link redirect to the social proof module, which is underneath your collection slash all like the bottom of that page.
Jack (26:04)
We've got a similar thing here, by the way, ⁓ whoever it is that's ⁓ running right, ⁓ adding that layer of friction to build your bundle. Why should they have to click? The best landing pages you see, people can build the bundle right from the landing page, but I have to click shop now and then opt into the bundle. And really, my intent to build a bundle is ⁓ not really being
Matt Attalah (26:20)
Mm.
Jack (26:33)
Like I have to be in on building a bundle from just this section without seeing the bundle. Whereas a lot of the bundle builders you'll see on landing pages are very visual, right? They're a lot more persuasive at getting you to build a bundle because it just seems like common sense, right? Why pay more for individual products than building a bundle and getting all these freebies or getting a deep discount, right? This is, I think it's good. You're thinking about it, but the landing page isn't doing the job properly.
Matt Attalah (27:03)
Agreed. 100%. Shall we hop into the next one?
Jack (27:08)
Let's do it. I think one thing ⁓ for the person running right, you could take a leaf out of ⁓ the last brand's book and add in shoppable social proof, shoppable videos, right?
Matt Attalah (27:22)
Yes. I
think they were using an app actually, that last brand. But I mean, you can build that native if you know Liquid. But there's probably an app for that that you can use as well. Although I'm going to say now also be so careful about adding too many apps to your stores. Like so many brands this year we've been working with that their load speed is just decimated. Because when you delete an app in Shopify, it doesn't necessarily remove all of the code associated with that app.
Jack (27:32)
for sure.
Matt Attalah (27:47)
So you can end up having like a bunch of code and little scripts that you don't even know what they're doing and you don't know where they exist within your code base, but they're slowing stuff down after three or four years. So make sure that you get someone technical to uninstall your apps for you.
Jack (28:02)
Nice. That's interesting. All right. Let's go into the next one. We've got quite a few here. Lily Lashes. Are you ready, Carolyn? Yeah, Rafael. ⁓ Good apps for shoppable video could be VideoWise, Tolstoy, ⁓ B-Novel, right? Any of- ⁓
Matt Attalah (28:20)
Mm, Tolstoy's
lifted CVR 15 % on a test we did about a
Jack (28:26)
yeah,
it's a great app. It's nice and fast too.
I think one of the tricky things sometimes, if you do price comparison in the Shopify app store, particularly for things like this, you might end up getting something that really costs you in conversion rate because it slows your website down or whatever it happens to be just because you want to save 15 or 100 bucks a month, right? But that's revenue that you'll make up in one or two orders that you otherwise might not have lost. So I recommend going with the cheap option on important things like this.
Matt Attalah (28:29)
Yeah.
completely agree.
Jack (29:00)
Awesome. Let's jump into it. Caroline, you're up. Lily lashes. Let's take a look here.
Matt Attalah (29:13)
Cool. Yeah. All right, interesting. ⁓ I've actually worked with two eyelash companies in the past. ⁓
Jack (29:13)
Okay, can move to my screen? Awesome.
Matt Attalah (29:27)
I'm gonna, so is this an influencer led, I'm gonna assume this is an influencer led brand. ⁓ So I guess the influencer's founder. ⁓ If you can just scroll up to the hero section again. So yeah, mean, yeah, definitely like Deborah's just called out, like CTA is critical. I actually would guess this is probably structured as an image. you like, and not like hard, like not coded in. ⁓
So I'd probably adjust that because it would just be easier for indexing on Google. Again, social proof. A lot of the basics that we're just seeing again and again mentioned here ⁓ that are easy wins, ⁓
I would also, if because we're leaning like literally the name of the brand is, is Lily's. ⁓ I would say it's important to also focus on Deborah's also from my team, by the way. So she'll have some good recommendations in the chat, ⁓ based on brands that she works with. one of the things that I think would be important here is not don't link to Lily's Instagram account or whatever, but just highlight the amount of followers she has, because if we're going from paid social, so people who are not.
a knowledge of Lily and don't have that trust verification. ⁓ when we're running meta ads to this page, that will help them to validate like Lily's expertise in this area. Cause like, I don't know Lily. So I, it doesn't resonate as much for me, but if I'm coming from, so like we see this, we have a client we work with, right. That, ⁓ has like 500k on Instagram and it's, it's very much the brand was built from her, like her Instagram going straight to the Shopify website. But you also have to be cognizant.
to get beyond a certain scale. You need to also orient your decisions for people that don't know the influencer. So like adding in that ⁓ call out there, I think would be quite valuable as well as the CTA and ⁓ just anything that's like 4,000 happy customers.
Jack (31:31)
Awesome.
Matt Attalah (31:31)
I
think it's cool. Let's scroll down a bit more.
Jack (31:35)
Something you can't see here as well is that we've got a browser notification opt-in, which is cool. Got on you. That's a fun way to retain. I didn't see a pop-up, but the browser notifications is good.
Matt Attalah (31:52)
Social proof again, talking about products, make it easy for me to see which product you're talking about and how to buy that product. like have a call to action for the specific product underneath the social proof module.
Jack (32:06)
Can you hear this coming through? Okay.
Matt Attalah (32:08)
Yeah.
So yeah, like just call out the specific product, make it easier for me to purchase that specific product. So instead of just the general shop self-adhesive, I would say under each of these videos, call out the specific product that's being discussed, if it's one product being discussed. ⁓
Yeah. And a buy box would be beneficial there as well. Um, so that we can just like easily add one, add three, add six, um, set up a subscription. guess I don't personally wear eyelashes, but, um, I, so I don't know if this is something that what, the time interval would be that you can use eyelashes, like eyelashes for, but, um, uh, maybe you can sub subscription one every 90 days, rebuy. not sure. Um, if you scroll down a bit more.
fan favorites a bit more add to bag probably could change that so it's a bit more direct like
Even just by now. don't, I mean, if, if happens when we click add to bag check, what does the side cart do?
⁓ I mean, one thing that you, I mean, one test that's kind of interesting for some brands is skipping the car and just sending people directly to the checkout. ⁓ this car has some upsells, so probably not wise to do that here, but, ⁓ that's also something worth considering. Like if it's like a one skewed product, ⁓ that's one in some tests. Like, but here, I mean, maybe you can have in your car, like three presets. like, ⁓ by three by five.
Jack (33:51)
Yeah, yeah, good shot.
Matt Attalah (33:52)
so that I can just click
to just click to just do multiple. So I don't have to click the quantity selector three or four times.
Jack (33:58)
Yeah, I think one more call out here, by the way, is maybe inverting your cart modal here to be white, match the product background, text to be black. But yeah, I love that recommendation. think that's such a call out. It does actually look like there might be some stuff that's hidden here. There's a lot of empty white space at the bottom. So something to think about.
Matt Attalah (34:24)
Cool, let's head into the PDP.
Jack (34:28)
Oh, there we go. Look at this. So we've got more video on the page, but with that.
Matt Attalah (34:29)
Good stuff.
I guess also highlight
how many followers these influencers have, you know? ⁓ I it seems unfortunate in society that we have to do this, but you know, it does help people. It helps people to just verify legitimacy, like, you know, that someone's got 400,000 followers and they talk about lashes, which just helps to know that that person's legitimate.
Jack (34:55)
Right, one thing I'm not a huge fan of on both these sections is the side swiping to get through the video. I mean, it is, I guess, maybe better than stacking these videos on top of each other, but the side swiping on mobile leads to people accidentally backing out and going back to the social media platform that they came from. ⁓ So yeah, this isn't my favorite way to navigate a website.
Matt Attalah (35:00)
Yeah.
Depends... Depends how many there are.
Yeah, I think that's a great call out. think it depends how many there are. ⁓ social proof wise, I definitely wouldn't have that as a slider. Like if we're to have one thing that just completely stacks, it'd be social proof. Cause like, think if this is also below the buy box in on date me, just in on date me with social proof. ⁓ and you can even have like 10 here and then just click load more so I can load more of them. ⁓ at the end of that.
Jack (35:40)
Yeah, good shot. ⁓
Matt Attalah (35:44)
And then yeah,
FAQ section at the bottom, how long do the lashes last? What's your returns policy? All of this kind of stuff that would slow me down in converting, make it one click so I can get my answers.
Jack (35:56)
We got a similar thing here with the bundle, where it looks like we have to go off to another page to build the bundle. And then the last thing I would say is double check the grammar. I mean, we've got how Lily makes application easy. ⁓ I'm not sure if that's the best introduction to this section. And then also, if these videos are not embedded and they're uploaded to the site, they could be slowing the site down a fair bit, having these very large videos.
Matt Attalah (36:20)
Yeah, and lazy load
them as well so that they don't load on the first page. Like the first time the page loads, don't have all of the content load because it's quite a video heavy page. So if you set it so it lazy loads, then it will just load as you get to that section.
Jack (36:33)
One thing that I think you guys crushed is having Lily all over the page. I don't think she's there too much. don't think that's possible with like a...
Matt Attalah (36:40)
Man, I need to Google Lily.
I need to see Lily's like, I haven't heard of Lily before. So I'm curious now.
Jack (36:49)
Okay, so we got a popup finally, only on exit intent, so that's interesting. And then we got a quiz.
Matt Attalah (36:53)
And it's a quiz funnel.
So yeah, mean, we're getting, okay, let's see. Let's see. But basically Alia is just a quiz funnel pop-up. So you've already got this on the exit intent. I just set it up on the first pop-up as well.
Jack (37:11)
Yeah, I mean there wasn't even a first pop-up, so probably losing most people and that was way too many steps. ⁓ Like most people, you're gonna lose so many people by waiting to get their email address right at the end ⁓ of like a 10-step quiz.
Okay, this is.
Matt Attalah (37:30)
Okay, so Lily
has like 3 million followers. God, I got off of Instagram like five years ago. I have no idea what's going on in this light anymore. I don't, I'm always like not knowing famous people and stuff like that.
Jack (37:43)
Awesome. Thank you, Caroline. This was really interesting. We've got some feedback from Deborah in the chat here as well. Zooming in the model's face to direct the user's eye to the product. ⁓ Nice PDP section. Yeah, I agree. PDP section. It's so important, right? With that hero product, something that new customers are likely to buy. A-B testing outlined versus filled in buttons would be nice. I like that too.
Deborah knows her stuff. Deborah, thank you for all of this. Why are we even here? yeah? Why are we here? We should just have Deborah. ⁓
Matt Attalah (38:15)
Debra is an account manager at Steplabs.
Exactly.
Jack (38:25)
Okay, who we moving on to next? Caroline, I hope that helps.
Matt Attalah (38:30)
Awesome. Cool, cool. Let's dive in. Next one was salt.
Jack (38:38)
Okay, let's pull it up. This is a cool hero.
Matt Attalah (38:40)
Cool name.
I'm gonna guess it's an electrolyte brand I haven't looked yet.
I was completely wrong.
Okay, cool.
Jack (38:57)
Okay, we got the pop-up.
Matt Attalah (38:59)
Yeah, that's a cool pop-up. I like it. Good imagery. ⁓
Jack (39:03)
I
think it's understated, hey, I like what you just called out, good imagery. Having a good image in your pop-up, like that's welcoming, that's friendly, just somebody smiling, it goes so far, right?
Matt Attalah (39:15)
Mm-hmm, fully agree. Cool, let's check out this hero section.
Yeah, I kind of, I do agree with Debra here. Like I do think, you know, let me see. ⁓ okay. Very good. I mean, basically this is the homepage. So this homepage is functioning a little bit like a collections page already, which I actually think is good. I think that's super direct response. I like that. Like you're making it really, especially for returning customers, right? You're making that like really, really easy for people to ⁓ instantly click into the category of the product that they're looking for. So.
For me, I mean, if your, your ads have done the requisite job of getting people excited about, um, the product itself, then letting people easily dive into the product categories. And as we scroll that sticky, good job. That's, that's tremendous. Um, that's very good. I might copy that actually for some brands. That's a good idea. scroll down a little bit more.
I think it's probably maybe too many. So I'm going to hope that when we come to these sections here, these are the highest, the best sellers. like the order of when we have like these six, like grids, like I want to make sure this, these are like best seller, second best seller. Like let's order this categorically based on sales data. ⁓ so we've got the pop-up modal that makes it super easy. So I don't have to load the whole pop-up. PDP. I like that.
Salt period panties are like the Lamborghini of period underwear. ⁓ What a quote. That's good. ⁓ I like that. I think there's some design work that can be done on these sections. not sure that ⁓ like from like a like I think you've got great assets, ⁓ great social proof, but ⁓ you know, maybe the color palette could pop a little bit more. ⁓
Maybe I can click this so that it goes through a video because this image looks like it's come from a video of this influence or cows. Um, for example, um, which is quite an, I'll, I'll be honest. I'm not really a huge fan of in this website, right? We've got the chat bot and the bottom, right. And then in the bottom left, we've got secret off the hit. I don't actually see these things. Well, I mean, if that's going to take us back to the original pop-up, then maybe that one can stay, but I don't, I'm not a fan of having too many pop-ups and like.
Jack (41:39)
Mm-hmm.
Matt Attalah (41:48)
like too much going on with regards to like fixed states on the page. ⁓ I think we're missing probably bit of social proof on this hero section. Can we see if they've got FAQs at the bottom? We also don't have an announcement bar, so that's something to add. ⁓ Scroll down a little bit.
Yeah, we're missing some stuff there. ⁓ And we've got horizontal scroll technical issue. ⁓ But look, generally, I think you're doing some things really well here. ⁓ I definitely think this is one of the better ones that we've looked at today for sure.
Jack (42:26)
Yeah, I mean, if this horizontal scroll is on actual mobile as well, not just on my Chrome browser compressed, then this is a big problem. This needs to be solved. I'm not sure what you're using here to capture people's email addresses, but this is the problem. But yeah, I think this is really good. I really like it. I like how you can pick your variant.
Matt Attalah (42:46)
I really like the branding.
I like the branding as well. Look at the product packaging. It's really solid. But I don't think the product packaging is quite as good as the web design. Sorry, I think the product packaging is actually on slightly. So if you look at this, you've got this cool gradient on the sort. ⁓ If you look at the actual product packaging.
Jack (42:51)
The thing that I'm not yet 100 % sure on
Matt Attalah (43:05)
Like we've got these mesh gradients that are coming in. So like here, like we've got this cool mesh gradients. I don't see that on the, on the website. And I actually think that's a much cooler color palette. And I think that can breathe a lot more life into the brand, which and you're, for me, copy great imagery, great. Like web elements, probably not on the same level.
A lot of this is kind of a bit too templaty for me. And I think that's the thing that I'd look to improve.
Jack (43:37)
Mm.
I really like this video up at the top. think you guys crushed it there. ⁓ But yeah, I'd agree. One thing that I'm not a big fan of, I do like that you have these Quick Add to Cards and you have the ability to pick your variants here. But then after clicking Quick Add, I'm taken to the product again and then I have to, there's this redundancy here, this extra step where I have to select my absorbency, select the size variant and the color again.
Matt Attalah (43:59)
⁓ Doesn't store it.
Jack (44:05)
Whereas if the size variant was here, color variant when you have the absorbency, you just make them all required before somebody clicks click add. I think that that could be a good solution. I'm also not a huge fan of the range pricing, right? I mean, it's not the end of the world, but what's causing the range?
Matt Attalah (44:26)
Super or heavy, guess, but you can't see. Click heavy. Well, it's not that actually. Interesting.
Jack (44:32)
The colors,
Matt Attalah (44:35)
Maybe it's what is wrong.
Jack (44:39)
Okay, there we go. So one of them is has slash through pricing. So that's obfuscating the price for your customers, making it little bit more complicated. And you're losing the ability to get somebody in with like a very price competitive price. ⁓ by having this range, just makes it complicated. ⁓ but yeah, this is not a quick add to cart button because it's opening up this modal here, which also has scroll. This is, this is fine.
Matt Attalah (44:46)
Yeah.
Quick question there from Rafael on what tool we use for split testing. there are a few good options here. Shoplift is an option that some people use. We use IntelliGems at Step Labs. I believe I've referred more brands to IntelliGems than any other agency. And they've just raised their series B, I believe. So they're scaling really well, and they've just been really solid in terms of working with us. We've literally never had an issue with them.
Jack (45:37)
Yeah.
Matt Attalah (45:37)
So
I'd recommend setting that up from a split testing standpoint. The only thing that I would bear in mind is split testing is great, but heat maps and screen recordings are free. And if you actually just spent an hour a week watching videos of how someone interacts with your site, I suggest you would learn more than waiting a week for results for split test. You should do both, but.
If you're going to choose between one or the other, go for the free option. It's just people find it boring, I guess. But you learn a lot. Don't sleep on qualitative data. Don't sleep on post-purchase surveys. Don't sleep on $50 Amazon gift card to get on a call with our marketing team, 10 customers from a specific customer segment where you can't work out why your ROAS has dropped on that segment. Just get them on a call. Do things that don't scale. I always highly, highly recommend that.
Jack (46:28)
the two things that don't scale.
Matt Attalah (46:34)
Cool. Let's hop on.
Jack (46:36)
I love this guy,
you're all sharing what you like, what you don't like. But yeah, call out for shoplift as well. Pretty price competitive way to run A-B tests. I think can even A-B test entirely different themes. So two different shoplifts, which is nice.
Matt Attalah (46:52)
Mm.
Jack (46:56)
If there's one thing in Shopify stores that tends to get overlooked, it's your website. People are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands on ads, and then their website stays pretty much the same, with very few changes, maybe a landing page here or there. But if people are traveling around your website, and it's just the way it's always been for three years, that could be a lot of uplifit that you're leaving on the table.
Matt Attalah (47:23)
I was on a call with a brand earlier that within three years they've scaled up to 45 mil, sorry, 55 mil in rev. ⁓ They've only ever run four split tests and three of them were set up incorrectly.
Jack (47:40)
They have a good product. This is a good brand. I always say that one of things I think is interesting in e-commerce is that business gets really, really easy when you have a great product. You never have to run an ABT. You have to run a landing page. just then be like, right, that's a point. What's the opposite?
Matt Attalah (47:43)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Well, how much more meat is on the bone? You know, that's how I see it. Like
maybe like how much more profitable could you be?
Jack (48:05)
Right, I agree. Heat maps, tip here, cross heat maps data with Shopify reports. Okay, so we got a tip from Deborah in a shot on the screen. Cross heat map data with Shopify reports. ⁓ Bounce rate, scroll depth, attention rate, paid versus organic traffic. Make decisions based on what you see there. Very likely your decisions would be better if they were informed. I like that, Deborah.
Matt Attalah (48:30)
for sure.
Jack (48:32)
Awesome. Guys, do we have anyone who wants their website audited, their landing pages? One thing I noticed is that we didn't get any Black Friday landing pages here. And if you're sitting on the fence thinking, Black Friday is like 43 days away, 42 days away, I've got time. Black Friday sales are probably going to start at the start of November if they haven't already started for some brands. So I definitely recommend getting on it. Make sure you get your landing pages ready. The difference between, you know,
homerun Black Friday and a Black Friday that's massively underwhelming could be a website that works, right, that converts. Right, if you look at, what's a fun analogy? If you look at...
Matt Attalah (49:10)
Let me see this. KC.
Jack (49:15)
your ads like the bait at the end of your fishing rod, right? Or the bait when you go fishing. Your website is sort of the net and if your website has holes in it, you're not going to catch many fish, right? If somebody clicks on your ad, then they go to a website that takes eight or ten seconds to load, they might just back out and carry on watching funny cat videos. So don't let that be you. Get your website in order before Black Friday rolls around.
Matt Attalah (49:40)
100%. Casey asks a good question. We've run Tolstoy and Hue for social proof videos, but in A-B tests, they always perform worse. So first thing would be like, make sure that it's statistically significant. The other thing would be like, this is for salt, right? So Casey, just let me just double check that Casey's from salt, right? So before I just talk rubbish. Yeah, Casey's from salt. Cool. So.
I mean, you've already got the pop-up on the left, the bottom left, and then in the bottom right, you've got the chat bot. If we're to also have Tolstoy hovering, it's a lot, you know? ⁓ so there's an argument, maybe it's three potential pop-up areas is just too many. it also depends on how good the video was, right? From the founder. I think Tolstoy is an effective mechanism for top of funnel education, but
I think your brand voice is already really good. So it's possible that...
It's kind of redundant in that sense, in fact counter, because it may decrease your load speed. But I mean, I think your tone of voice, your messaging, the way that your brand resonates with its actual ideal demographic is already pretty clear. So an additional video might not be incremental. That kind of would logically make sense to me. I'd have to look at the data in a bit more depth, but there's a variety of factors that I think could explain that.
Jack (51:05)
There's a tricky one. I think one of the things that's worth considering when you're looking at data from an AV test or an analytics page is that...
you are trying to get learnings away from numbers and the learnings you take away, even though it might seem like a black and white result, might not be accurate. You might walk away with a conclusion that isn't representative of reality. It might be representative of reality last month or last year or ⁓ from a small cohort of visitors to your website, but not representative of the next cohort of visitors to your website. So yeah, I would be careful not to make ⁓ conclusions that
run
in the face of what is. ⁓
I would say not necessarily conventional wisdom, but what is genuinely already proven to be working for brands in your niche that are growing fast, right? If you see that, for example, Tolstoy, it's on a huge amount of very, very fast growing stores. If you see that, our A-B test didn't go well, one day we had it, one day we didn't, we ran that for seven days, and now you have the conclusion that Tolstoy doesn't work, ⁓ at least for you, it's...
that might be a bad conclusion to land on. So just be careful with some of the results, whether it's from heat map tests or it's from A-B tests, and take it with a pinch of salt.
Matt Attalah (52:28)
Yeah, context is critical. You you need to look up.
Do a report, right? I would say actually try and write like two or three paragraphs on why you think you got the result. And just dig into the tabs. Like in Telegrams, when you do a split test, it will tell you the conversion rate difference and the AOV difference for new customer segments versus returning customers versus paid social versus various different segments, mobile, desktop. You might be able to identify some more interesting factors there.
I believe we have come to the end of the webinar. ⁓ But yeah, this was a lot of fun. I hope it was useful for people. And ⁓ just if you would like to kind of schedule a call with me, where I'd be happy to kind of go through your... ⁓
website and specifics and a bit more depth. We're still taking on two or three more brands before Black Friday. So ⁓ you can schedule in a call my Callendly here. It would be great to put a face to the chat bubble. I just put my Callendly in the chat.
Jack (53:37)
Sure guys, yep. You can book on now, his calendly is in the chat. And if you need it, you can always send me a message after the call or drop me an email and I'll send you his calendar.
Awesome. Thanks so much for coming. It was great. This was awesome. We learned so much. So appreciate it, Matt.
Matt Attalah (53:50)
Awesome.
Thank you for the opportunity. Appreciate it. Cheers.
Jack (54:00)
Talk to you guys, bye.
